songtrust vs ascap
. Which brings me to my main question: What exactly is the relationship between Songtrust and HFA? They’ll even pitch your songs for film, television, and video game opportunities! Yes, I think CD Baby collect mechanical on downloads, but not streams. Imagine my shock when I logged in a few months later and saw a NEGATIVE BALANCE of $305.05!!!!!!!!! Rumblefish does that too, but is mainly a music library that will license your music for super cheap. Yes, definitely let us know how you like it! ; Businesses Get complete song performance insights and new ways to collect revenue. I have my first single that I’m trying to release in the most efficient yet thorough way, which is why I ask this. CD Baby only stands to gain when you make sales, and 9% of nothing is nothing. On a historical basis(2015-2018) 200-250k streams may be more likely to hit the $117.56 you need to recoup your $100 signup fee. Also, I’ve already put out 12 songs, 9 this year, 32 more already scheduled to release this year, am I going to have to pay to register for each 10 songs that I decide to put out? No, Songtrust is not a Performing Rights Organization (PRO). Thanks again! Relieved to know my publishing company will [most likely] remain on my songs/catalog. like most of already do. Why Songtrust; Who Uses Songtrust. Looks like just another aggregator to me. Creators Songwriters, producers and creators collect royalties globally from your songs while keeping 100 percent of the rights. Songtrust currently offers direct affiliation to ASCAP, BMI for U.S. writers and SOCAN for Canadian and non-U.S. writers. ASCAP. But BMI is a PRO, so that’s different. So what they are telling me is that after over a year and a half with them and several queries about this, they never bothered to check to make sure if my music was properly registered with HFA. If we don’t get an official response soon, feel free to remind me and I’ll email CJ. I joined Songtrust.. After reading on how much I paid the 100$’s and thought the 15% for there take was o.k. I tell you everywhere you need to register your songs to earn royalties, get protected, and legitimize yourself as an artist. Hi Brian, I’ll do my best, but keep in mind I wrote this article three years ago and haven’t made a point of keeping up. I use Songtrust and they only collect the Publisher's share of my royalties. Yes, you absolutely positively still need SoundExchange. Was planning on using Songtrust (and in the process join ASCAP so as to avoid creating a vanity publishing company), but just realized that this might not distribute as well. Traditional performance royalties vs. digital performance royalties. And how do you collect this money? I see lots of people getting into the industry and so many people (myself included) don’t know anything about PROs, ISRCs, publishing, licensing etc. i live outside of the us. Just when I become confident with my knowledge in one area, I move to another subject, only to find I didn’t know as much I thought I did. That combined with the fact that they have my credit card on file (I used it for the initial $100 registration fee), I fear if I cancel know, they'll charge my card. Hi JM – Thats a great question and something a lot of people get confused about. SongTrust vs ASCAP/BMI/SESAC Can someone please explain what is difference of using a resource like Songtrust vs Direct registration with the P.R.O.'s. Yeah, it’s confusing stuff. We signed up with AWAL last year and really like their whole operation on balance. I’ prefer to use a few companies as possible and don’t want to overlap, having 2 companies doing the same thing. Or, is Songtrust the only entity taking their percentage? Brilliant but as I am in Australia I have no idea whether this is a good idea for me or not. Do labels even have staff writers? I’m told that you can sign up if you’re already affiliated with the PRO in your home area, which in your case is APRA. I am an artiste in Nigeria about to release my song. They have not responded to this. I’m confused by by the previous gentleman’s story. You may know this by now, but DistroKid can do this for you. So, that’s another instance where a publishing admin would be important, right? We have entered into a license with Facebook in the USA and have various licenses in other territories as well. It operates as a non-profit and was founded by radio executives to "serve as an advocate for the value of music" and to "support its songwriters, composers and publishers by taking care of an important aspect of their careers – getting paid," according to the BMI website. or (2) if I can register with Tune core Publishing and Songtrust simultaneously. $73 in international performance royalties, $27 in international mechanical royalties. what about international performance royalties. There is both a performance and mechanical/sync royalty. And, again, you have to import your setlists. Are you okay with not knowing how much you could’ve received? I wanted to ask you, and the rest of the folks here, what is the exact difference (pros & cons) of having Harry Fox Agency vs Songtrust or similar to serve as the publishing administrator? There are quite a few articles related to Harry Fox in the Songtrust Help Center, and it wouldn’t surprise me if the answer were buried in one of them! Songtrust is an additive service to being registered with ASCAP. Cool, thanks for your info, Brian. I understood that SongTrust collected royalties far beyond what a PRO would do, so I thought I needed to be with both. Just looked into DistroKid a little more. If so, have you tried them? Songtrust and TuneCore Publishing are publishing administrators. I have a media group. If you’re sure you’re going to keep releasing music, you might as well go ahead and join! HFA is not a publishing administrator, they are a mechanical licensing agency which means they get paid by digital streaming platforms like Spotify and Apple Music to collect and account for mechanical royalties generated on those platforms. Was looking at a way of avoiding using CD Baby Pro and your site came up. Also, would Songtrust collect from TikTok? Recently I’ve been co-writing songs with other people and have been trying to find an Aggregator (like CD Baby) that can get songs on iTunes, Spotify,etc., while still accommodating revenue splitting for Co-Writers. Just want to say Kudos to you sir. I think 15% commission is worth it if they earn their keep by getting you on playlists. I feel you on asking them most of these questions directly. Some instrumental I think from watching you on YouTube.com. As you’d probably guess, I have no idea. If you sign up with Songtrust directly, your entire catalogue is covered. like most of already do. Songtrust. And SoundCloud through Premier monetization. I used the discount code … I was already planning to sign up so this worked great for me. Two forward one back it was for a bit, trying to get the ball rolling. I believe I’m currently receiving all possible writer and publisher royalties (from BMI), but don’t believe I’m collecting any mechanical royalties (thought I was, but after much reading online, seems not). Luckily, Songtrust has a network of these performing rights organisations (PROs) in North America, or collective management organisations (CMOs) in Europe. The International Standard Musical Work Code (ISWC) is an 11-character alphanumeric code or international identification system cataloging individual compositions (usually songs), rather than recordings. It’s just odd that I always got paid once a year from cdbaby, going over 100 dollars including having many “downloads”. If you have any kind of substantial streams, it quickly becomes more cost-effective to use tunecore. We register your songs globally and collect on your behalf. I’m not sure what you’re expecting of them. Their system for tracking plays is much more advanced. Can I Join if I Already Have a Publishing Deal? Creators Songwriters, producers and creators collect royalties globally from your songs while keeping 100 percent of the rights. Total deal breaker. Hi, Brian. You have to pay 10$ for each 10 following tracks, so it’s actually not a one time fee as with Tunecore. Best, Submitting tracks to music library doesn’t require an aggregator. ASCAP just uses the song title, they use ISRC codes, audio fingerprinting, metadata, and the song titles so they find more of my plays. The 150k streams number is assuming a 40-60 cent per 1,000 streams USA weighted steam-count on interactive streaming services(e.g. All feedback is appreciated and thank you to everyone in advance! I’m a member of the norwegian PRO Tono (www.tono.no). If your split is already registered at your PRO then you should be fine to register your share with Songtrust so we can begin collecting your global performance and mechanical royalties. Check it out under the “What Songtrust collected” heading in the article. Just wanted to say thanks for the Songtrust code (remember to use the capitals). But, the PROs don’t collect mechanical royalties, only performance. Obviously, the sooner you get on it, the better! Hence why I created a Songtrust account. CD Baby has always been my recommendation, and the bulk of my discography is with them. Imagine my shock when I logged in a few months later and saw a NEGATIVE BALANCE of $305.05!!!!!!!!! Yes, I’m 99% sure the publishing admin can collect old royalties. I believe there are still problems for the songwriter. My guess is there’s no difference because they all use the same ContentID system through YouTube. I tried out DistroKid recently, thinking $20 per year was a great value. I suppose if you’re releasing an album every year, even $35 isn’t bad. So if you want your overseas mechanicals, you still need something like Songtrust. I’m hoping someone from Songtrust will jump in, but at first blush, I don’t see how you your situation is different than mine. I suppose it would depend on what kind of publishing deal you got, but assuming they didn’t want to take over admin, and solely based on my own experience, yes, Songtrust would then be listed as admin publisher. Any chance that will be working again? I am switching from what i feel is a BOGUS Distributor (DITTO MUSIC) to a better choice. It looks like there is an option for HFA to collect outside of the US on your behalf, but that would still leave uncollected mechanical royalties from sources like Pandora and Soundcloud, etc. Although I use Stem for distribution and song splits, I typically still register the song with Songtrust. That’s the lion’s share of the royalties due. Always make sure to reference your agreements for clarification and ensure you have split sheets filled out to get your ownership stake in writing. I may drop Songtrust. Is there something i have to do first? The 67 cents is when someone downloads, as oppose to streams, one of your tracks. Hope it helps! You’ve got 170 YouTube subscribers and 115 monthly listeners on Spotify. This doesn’t quite make sense. This is because it typically takes up to 12 months for Songtrust to register your songs globally...". I’m based in the UK and use PRS for collecting performance royalties and distribute my music with Distrokid. It’s still way too early to say “hey where’s my royalties”. I was actually having a really good month on Spotify when they were reviewing my application, which I hoped would work in my favor. I am not a musican – just a writer. In this particular case, it’s hard to see the downside of joining Songtrust if you stand to make money. I live outside the US so CDBaby is appearantly not an publishing option for me. Hey Brian, Beyond the financial uncertainty, there’s also the psychological uncertainty. A little odd to me. Fortunately, Songtrust more than made up for it by collecting an additional $322 for me that I wouldn’t have otherwise received: What about those missing radio royalties from 2000? ; Creator Reps Managers and lawyers connect with the most extensive, accessible publishing network in the industry. (This is non-paid advertisement). You can work with other plugging companies. I’ve been reading like crazy about this to make up mind what I should do. The sign up process was very easy and I will report back with some stats/ info. The author asks if it’s worth joining Songtrust or just using a PRO only. My own experience concerning PRO accounts is a nightmare. Your email address will not be published. At least not right now. Your insight is amazing thanks a bunch! Each territory throughout the world has a performance and mechanical agency/society that collects royalties within that area. Are there any new solutions to help resolve this co-writing issue out there? Required fields are marked *. I’m in the same boat actually, releasing material with another producer. I’m thinking registering with Distrokid or Indigoboom and waiting with registering with an admin publisher. It even says, “sale” on my accounting page but I click on the sale and it takes my to the “details” and it says it’s a “stream”. I’m surprised to hear you were rejected by AWAL. Obviously it was the right call for me. This, for me, is a deal breaker because I expect Songtrust to be passive, having so many other songwriters. The first thing that most young songwriters in the US hear is “you need to sign up for ASCAP or BMI to make sure you get your songwriter royalties.” I have to hand it to ASCAP and BMI’s PR departments. I suspect that your ability to claim past royalties will depend on the PRO(s) involved. You do indeed need to be with both. ), so I wasn’t sure if SongTrust collected the same ones that Rumblefish might. I think how far they can go back depends on the PRO, but 6 months is almost certainly safe. doesn't do. Let me just say thank you Brian for this informative and detailed article! The comment dates help, but not ideal. I can’t remember the full extent of my client’s experience, but I do remember that he couldn’t get ahold of anyone for a week or so, and he was stressing because his release date was coming up. I saw the discount, and that made taking this decision much easier Thanks for that! It seems that there are a lot of artists that have something to say about this! Youtube streaming royalties are less than these. Is that right? She was very helpful. The title’s are similar but aren’t my songs. As you can see, Songtrust collected plenty for me that I wouldn’t have otherwise received. I see two things that I seem to missing but I was hoping you could clarify. I’ve been with them since the very beginning (Derek actually handled CD sales on my site pre-CD Baby) and they’ve generally been great. Thanks for the helpful info from your article. Last I looked in my ASCAP account, it showed my publishing company as the publisher, but also listed Songtrust as admin publisher. The tradeoff is it’s 15% commission vs 9% for CD Baby. Well, from your PRO or your admin publisher. But royalties never appear like magic. Whether we are composing music underscore directly for films and TV shows or we are licensing music into Films and TV shows through music libraries and publishers, there are never any mechanicals. Thanks Brian for all the information and responses to and from people on here. Seeing as we can’t apply directly to HFA though, I don’t see a better option. In addition to Eric, in the terms; . Maybe I missed it. The key is, with Songtrust you’re entering into an exclusive publishing ADMINISTRATION deal. To my knowledge, CD Baby and other Aggregators only allow for “1” account holder on a song & only provides that one Account Holder with revenue payments and sales data. I think I got $26 last quarter from Songtrust. You can hold off even setting up a publishing company until you’ve got royalties to collect, like a big sync placement. We’re both registered with PROs as both a writer and publisher, and Songtrust collects several royalty streams that PROs don’t. I’ve included a copy below. If you make your own original music as an independent artist, songwriter, producer, composer, or lyricist, there are more opportunities than ever to earn significant income from music publishing.. All my releases are with CD Baby. So if you believe your music will sell, I’d go the first year to Tunecore, keep it there as long as it sells well, and move it to CDBaby when sales start dropping below about 100$ a year. ASCAP, BMI, SESAC). I don’t believe Songtrust revealed that to me. They also changed the names of two songs on at least one of my albums. I really have appreciated your feedback. They should be able to field all your questions, and if they’re not familiar with Songtrust, that might inform your decision too. May not work for you, but it works great for me. They also collect mechanical royalties which ASCAP, BMI, etc. Hey there, But thanks for the advice about submitting tracks directly with the library. You can’t even specify a release date on their $20/year plan! Can I Join if I Am Already a Member of the Harry Fox Agency (HFA)? I’m not a lawyer (I think you’re supposed to say that, right? When I briefly tried Distrokid, I was frustrated with extra costs I didn’t foresee (scheduling a release date, cover songs), so I bailed out and got a refund. I get a reply that states: “A CD Baby Pro account with that email already exist. I'm trying to add myself as a songwriter but its not allowing me to. Is it if I gety radio play? Those two agencies will most likely collect the vast majority of royalties for you. Creators Songwriters, producers and creators collect royalties globally from your songs while keeping 100 percent of the rights. Your ASCAP payments will come through SoundCloud. CD Baby Pro partners with Songtrust. One of my clients had a bad experience with Distrokid, but that’s purely anecdotal. Hi Brian, (my name is Brian too!) My music has racked up a lot of views on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook videos. But, I also want to sync licensing capabilities. When you buy products through links across our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. As far as copyright is concerned, since in the US you automatically are considered the copyright owner, will songtrust be able to ensure that my work is copyright protected overseas as well or would I have to copyright it formally? Launched in 1914, ASCAP is … I was thinking of signing up with either Songtrust or Tunecore’s pub admin when I saw your post. Thanks. Is Songtrust a Performing Rights Organization (like ASCAP, BMI, SESAC)? Why Songtrust; Who Uses Songtrust. Here’s to everyone’s success. I wouldn’t sign up with Songtrust just yet. Thanks for all the info. Always enjoy your answers. My pleasure! Unless you’re getting lots of streams though, it’s not particularly urgent. Thank you so much for this article Brian!!! When with CD Baby, they did this via Rumblefish. Tunecore deezer for the codebase and to spotify in getting good in the. Launched: 1939 If so, it’s much better to sign directly with Songtrust…, I’m just wondering as I want to distribute my music via CD Baby and sign with their publishing service, but I’m not sure if they take an additional cut after Songtrust take theirs. But, I’m working with an artist who’s relatively small, but growing over time. Otherwise I’d be wondering if there was a pot of gold waiting for me at the end of the rainbow. Overall it’s been a really frustrating time with Songtrust, I do not ‘trust’ Songtrust and would warn musicians to make 100% sure they are getting the royalties they are due as my experience of them is poor customer services and very poor royalty collection. Unless you’re getting a lot of streams, don’t expect those mechanical royalties to add up to much. I will report back on it, hopefully soon. Don’t know how much that might influence them haha, but a good reference is better than no reference. They are really just to let you know that the song is on Spotify. Songtrust doesn’t have any sort of separate registration for publisher accounts. Creators Songwriters, producers and creators collect royalties globally from your songs while keeping 100 percent of the rights. They ignored me. Bug music for now, let’s take 030% of mixing/mastering songs can offer you need distribution include. The breakdown is in the article. Great info. It would be lovely if Songtrust offered better and alternative payment options for non-US residents using their services. As far as I know, CD Baby doesn’t allow you to set iTunes pricing at $1.29. I’ve just read through this entire thread dating back years ago. You don't need to be registered with a Performing Rights Organization in order to collect your earnings from the stores you distribute to via DistroKid, but you're welcome to do register your works with them for additional publishing administration outside of DistroKid. If I already have a PRO ASCAP both for Writer Share and my own Publishing (ASCAP) (which I register all songs myself), Distrokid, and SoundExchange–why would I need something like SongTrust? I’m trying to understand where the ROI is on Songtrust. I’d love your thoughts on this. Content ID isn’t worth the trouble IMHO, and not worth the pennies I like to let people use my music in their videos, and whitelisting the permitted URLs is a hassle. 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